Curse

Carmine · Dec 14, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

My inner grammar nazi still cringes a little, but to my eyes, it's still a lot more readable - and if you're going to use a language in the written form, it's worth learning how to write it... if not perfectly, at least well enough that it's easy to read.

For the record, you're English is still probably better than my fluency in any other language, so feel free to consider me a hypocrite, but I think the point still stands.

I second your point about using English properly (most non-native English speakers speak and type better English than most teens I've met, and that's *sad*).

...however, *MY* inner grammar nazi cringes more than a little when you say things like "you're English". You're = you are. This is the most point-blank obvious rule in the English language, and it sickens me when people can't manage to keep straight what contractions are (you're, it's, they're, who's). Using apostrophes is easier than knowing how to conjugate "to run".

draxynnic · Dec 14, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I honestly don't know what you're talking about...

(You're quite correct - I think my fingers just remembered "you're" when my brain was thinking "your".)

Idly, wouldn't the Great White Hankerchief be coming to wipe the universe off the face of the Great Green Arkleseizure, rather than us off the face of the universe?

DarkDervish · Dec 14, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

We've covered a few fantasy genres. Medieval, Oriental, though Nightfall is unique in that it is North African/Egyptian but you could put it under Desert Fantasy. What is left? Well it would be I agree Norse/Celtic mythology, or the only other option which is rarely used would be Greco-Roman though I'd prefer Norse/Celtic. Theres not much else to consider unless they do choose to add some unique other races, maybe Elves then it could be Elven but Guild Wars seems to want to be more unique than that. I do hope they make another race available, ATLEAST near-human, I have no idea why they have not yet.

Feme Assassin · Dec 16, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

OK plz stop this thing about languages.
Here is my theory about chapter 4:

(The storyline for old players and the connection between tyria and the new land)

Abaddon was at last defeated peace has returned to tyria cantha and elona.
Ascalon pushes the charr army to the north they retake tomb of drascir for ascalon and they start an assault in charr capital they kill the charr king and bring an end to the war.

But King Adelbern founds out that the charr started attacking tyria to savee their lives form the giants that were attacking their civilazation.So Adelbern decides to destroy the giant nation and take their lands for ascalon.

After a few battles he realises that the giants had allied with menzies or dhuum(i havent decided yet

)and they were trying to awake their ancestors to destroy the world and the gods themselves.

(The storyline for new players)

Thousands of years ago when the tribes of man scattered all across the earth.A mighty king led his ppl to the north.Those ppl managed to stay alive all this years despite the cold and the difficulties they found there.

Today after thousands of years they face a new threat from the northen mountains the giants that seek to destroy the world.

(My theory about the new pvp system)
Hall sieges(sry if this is posted again.I searched but i only found siege turtles for sale)
Players:15(from each team)
Trophy for the attacker if he wins:Loser's guild hall
Trophy for the defender if he wins:Upgrades to his hall(in battle only like more npcs(archers,knights) or stronger walls and gate)

Two random guilds(like gvg)will fight for their hall if the attacker wins he takes the defenders hall if defenders wins he upgrades his hall so it would be more difficult to be taken in feauture sieges.

In order to get into defender's castle the attacker will have to destroy a part of the wall or the gate with siege weapons.
There will be 2 altars inside the castle so the defender will have some extra boosts.The defender will also have some repair kits to reapair the destroyed wall or gate

Illithen Firebringer · Jan 06, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

My Thoery is that we will see the charr and the dwarves again. We go back to ascalon where the war is giong badly for those who stayed. adelbern Calls the heroes back with a plea for assistance. We push back the charr further and further untill we find out what is making them attack the human kingdoms(titans, Giants or maybe Gwen?

)

well i have reasons it could be any of the three.

1. Titans.

The titans were defeated Right? well maybe some of them survived and are leading the charr on?

2. Giants

The giants we last seen on this continent 1000 years ago, according to the manual, so maybe they are pushing the charr towards the human kingdoms(kinda borrowed someone elses idea)

3.Gwen

Gwen dissapeared after the searing, right? well maybe the charrr captured her, and for some reason, maybe she discovers magic and kills a few of them, they worship her as a god. She is angry at ascalon for not protecting her or something and sends her charr army to attack. when you fight her in the last mission, she is a Mes/War with illusionary weaponry. she uses that because of one of her quotes in pre searing "I'd love to be a Warrior, but the Mesmer armor is so pretty! Oh! i cant decide..."

That is my chapter 4 theory

There would be new features like gaining a new title like ascalon army rank or something that would let you control troops in missions. and there would be a Ascalon/Charr border similar to Luxon and Kurzick, that dictated who controlled what at what time. the dwarves will coe to help fight the charr, or maybe the stone summit will ally with the charr.

Lemme know what you think,

-Illithen

Illithen Firebringer · Jan 06, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

My Thoery is that we will see the charr and the dwarves again. We go back to ascalon where the war is giong badly for those who stayed. adelbern Calls the heroes back with a plea for assistance. We push back the charr further and further untill we find out what is making them attack the human kingdoms(titans, Giants or maybe Gwen?

)

well i have reasons it could be any of the three.

1. Titans.

The titans were defeated Right? well maybe some of them survived and are leading the charr on?

2. Giants

The giants we last seen on this continent 1000 years ago, according to the manual, so maybe they are pushing the charr towards the human kingdoms(kinda borrowed someone elses idea)

3.Gwen

Gwen dissapeared after the searing, right? well maybe the charrr captured her, and for some reason, maybe she discovers magic and kills a few of them, they worship her as a god. She is angry at ascalon for not protecting her or something and sends her charr army to attack. when you fight her in the last mission, she is a Mes/War with illusionary weaponry. she uses that because of one of her quotes in pre searing "I'd love to be a Warrior, but the Mesmer armor is so pretty! Oh! i cant decide..."

That is my chapter 4 theory

There would be new features like gaining a new title like ascalon army rank or something that would let you control troops in missions. and there would be a Ascalon/Charr border similar to Luxon and Kurzick, that dictated who controlled what at what time. the dwarves will coe to help fight the charr, or maybe the stone summit will ally with the charr.

Lemme know what you think,

-Illithen

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 08, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

(Say where did my previous post go to, its disappeared? did a mod accidently delete it instead of the double post?)

The titans wont lead the Charr anymore, the charr no longer worship them after the titans abaddoned them sometime between the end of Prophecies and the end of Nightfall.

Giants are highly possible to appear, although they have aleady appeared in numerious sections of the game. However the Super Giants aka the Gianticus Lup (cant rememeber the rest) are still a big mystery to us.

Although id love to see her, i doubt Gwen would appear in the next chapter, Anet likes us to be in antisipation for that, so they probally wont include her till teh last chapter of gw (by which time she will have fully grown up). Shes the Holy Grail of gw, everyone wants to know more about her and find her. the biggest mystery in gw wont be solved for a while yet) And if she was to return she would probally be a W or a Ele (since she Idolises Devona which she mentions in Pre and her actions in the beta event)

The Giants werent the ones to push the Charr south they did so in hatred for the humans which was created by the titans control over them. Howver 1 idea i have is that perhaps the 'Northern Kingdom' mention in the NF manual refers to a northern kingdom of human that unlike the other encounter human forces are an Evil race of Slavers who have hunted and captured many Charr. Thus cause the Charrs Hatred of humans. If the Humans and Charr allied against this rogue kingdom it would make a good storyline.

Everyone want to see the charr again, those big fluffy critters were great.

Free Runner · Jan 08, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

The titans wont lead the Charr anymore, the charr no longer worship them after the titans abaddoned them sometime between the end of Prophecies and the end of Nightfall.

Actually the charr should not yet of abandoned worshiping the Titans. They only realised the Titans were false/manipulating them after they had been killed and pulled into the Realm Of Torment...which means the Charr still living will have no idea that the Titans tricked them.

I also thought the next chapter was going to be a new story?. I thought Ascalons story was over when the King stood against the Titans/Charr Warlords in Last Day Dawns.

How about some theorys on a possible new story that does not sway to the revenge of Ascalon?

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 09, 2007, 10:17 AM // 10:17

The reason the Charr are around in DoA etc. is because the Charr sent squads to find out why the titans had abandoned them, they know they have, the living ones just dont know why they have.

Ascalons story may indeed be over but alot of people would still like to see Ascalon return atleast to a little of its former glory. It was the 1st place most people spent playing gw (aside from people who started with new campaigns) and so its much loved (especially Pre) and people are naturally curious as to what will happen to the Ascalons now. Ascalon played only a very minnute part of the Flameseeker prophecies people want to see it play a bigger role in the next story arc.

Cebe · Jan 09, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Everyone want to see the charr again, those big fluffy critters were great.

Everyone except me

I hate the Charr...

Free Runner · Jan 09, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

The reason the Charr are around in DoA etc. is because the Charr sent squads to find out why the titans had abandoned them, they know they have, the living ones just dont know why they have.

The reason the Charr are in RoT is because they died in the invasion of Orr. They never sent squads out looking for the Titans...since they saw the last of Titans on Tyria get destroyed by us (Titan Source)

The only reason the Charr in RoT thinks the titans may of abandoned them is because he was sent into Torment after death and not some eternal paradise or whatever they are promised.

Although speaking of Charr in RoT...he does speak of his land in one sentence

"in the flames of the lands that we called home"

Not sure if he is refering to a current known place inside Ascalons "Northlands" or a place we have not yet seen.

gilgameshx · Jan 10, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Just to explain a few things.

In the Prophecies manual about Gigantus Luplous is actually 10,000BE while present day GW is 1072 AE. So it's actually more than 10,000 years ago. I don't expect these "great giants" to come back. Every time someone mentions giants, I keep thinking of those guys I've see at Riverside, Arid Sea, etc.

Giants and Titans are not the same thing. The Charr saw a vision of the titans, just like how Saul D'Alesso saw a vision of the unseen/Mursaat. Both of them gain a new purpose in life.

If you've done the Scorch Emberspire quest then you know that the Charr have been betrayed. But only Scorch Emberspire knows that (unless they are other Charrs in RoT). How do you expect him to tell his race about that? Through you in the game? Will the Charr believe you? Unless somehow he gives you a relic to prove to the Charr that you are not lying.

The Charr did not hate Ascalon or Humans until they saw the vision of the Titans. Somehow within that vision, they were to march towards Orr and destroy anyone who opposes it. You could say that they were trying to seek ascension by conquering humans and finally arriving at Orr. First they started with Ascalon then split up between Kryta and Orr. I've wonder how they destroyed Ascalon with those Crystals. It looks familar to the one in Crystal desert (I think I am wrong with this statement but I think I've seen a picture of it before somewhere). Anyway, they were told to march to Arah (Orr), home of where the Gods used to live. I'm sure the Charr was an excuse for Vizier Khilbron to cause "The Cataclysm." Orr somehow was probably the greatest threat to Abaddon.

So we could have a story about the Charr, but it wouldn't be much. Besides the fact about the Luxon raiders who used to sail the seas "near Northwest of Cantha and Southern rim of Elona." Also the NF manual mentions about the first "Great Corsair Wars" (712AE) and the second (982AE). I probably mentioned this a lot but the Northen areas might not be North of Tyria but most likely Northwest of Cantha because of the hint given. We still don't know exactly where Cantha is since the Factions manuals mentions that it is located south of tyria. I also can't believe how the Dredge managed to tunnel their way to Cantha by going south, which makes me believe that they went north unless they found a portal or The Rift.

But I'm trying to picture the maps together and it doesn't make much of sense. Since that means Elona would be Northwest of Cantha. Unless there is another part of Elona or another continent east of it. Most of the Corsairs live near that southern rim of Elona. Northwest of Cantha has nothing but sea. When I think back about Prophecies, I think about Orr, the Mursaat, and the Seers. My guess Ch.4 would be called Guild Wars: The Corsair Wars. If for some reason they bring another god, it might be a Poseidon type perhaps? And just for kicks, Atlantis is not the only rumored continent that was sunked, Mu is another continent hidden below the Pacific Ocean. No scientific evidence of the 2 continents have been found.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 10, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

The reason the Charr are in RoT is because they died in the invasion of Orr. They never sent squads out looking for the Titans...since they saw the last of Titans on Tyria get destroyed by us (Titan Source)

The only reason the Charr in RoT thinks the titans may of abandoned them is because he was sent into Torment after death and not some eternal paradise or whatever they are promised.

Garfaz Steelfur - "He later came to the Realm of Torment with a warband of other Charr to serve his Titan gods. However, the demons in the realm, who like to devour the souls of mortals, started to feast on his band and he quickly realized the nature of the Titans.".

Not all creatures in RoT are Dead, Garfaz is n
ot, and neither is Scorch Emberspire, both searched a way into RoT to find and serve the 'missing' titans who evidentally they had heard nothing from, and began to grow disillusioned with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgameshx

Just to explain a few things.

In the Prophecies manual about Gigantus Luplous is actually 10,000BE while present day GW is 1072 AE. So it's actually more than 10,000 years ago. I don't expect these "great giants" to come back. Every time someone mentions giants, I keep thinking of those guys I've see at Riverside, Arid Sea, etc.

It is still possible for these to return the only given quote we have for them says they no longer walk the lands of Tryia, meaning either they no longer walk or they simply dont walk on Tryia (unknown if this is the continent or the world). But yeah Giants are the fellas from Kryta etc. Gigantus are the really big ones.

And it is possible the Titans and Gigantus's are the same but i doubt it, the titans are too small to be the Gigantus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgameshx

If you've done the Scorch Emberspire quest then you know that the Charr have been betrayed. But only Scorch Emberspire knows that (unless they are other Charrs in RoT). How do you expect him to tell his race about that? Through you in the game? Will the Charr believe you? Unless somehow he gives you a relic to prove to the Charr that you are not lying.

The Charr did not hate Ascalon or Humans until they saw the vision of the Titans. Somehow within that vision, they were to march towards Orr and destroy anyone who opposes it. You could say that they were trying to seek ascension by conquering humans and finally arriving at Orr. First they started with Ascalon then split up between Kryta and Orr. I've wonder how they destroyed Ascalon with those Crystals. It looks familar to the one in Crystal desert (I think I am wrong with this statement but I think I've seen a picture of it before somewhere). Anyway, they were told to march to Arah (Orr), home of where the Gods used to live. I'm sure the Charr was an excuse for Vizier Khilbron to cause "The Cataclysm." Orr somehow was probably the greatest threat to Abaddon.

We only know the Titans gave the charr a purpose of Destruction, that was always towards Arah to help Abaddon releave some Anger at the other gods, and to set up future events (that have now transpired) We do not know if they hated the Humans for this reason if for another reason.

And there are charr within the RoT that arnt Dead these know atleast some of the truth about the titans they may return home to tell the others, the others may not know what is going on but they will know they are being ignored by the titans after there failure to wipe out the human kingdoms they may look like large cats but there not completely daft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgameshx

So we could have a story about the Charr, but it wouldn't be much. Besides the fact about the Luxon raiders who used to sail the seas "near Northwest of Cantha and Southern rim of Elona." Also the NF manual mentions about the first "Great Corsair Wars" (712AE) and the second (982AE). I probably mentioned this a lot but the Northen areas might not be North of Tyria but most likely Northwest of Cantha because of the hint given. We still don't know exactly where Cantha is since the Factions manuals mentions that it is located south of tyria. I also can't believe how the Dredge managed to tunnel their way to Cantha by going south, which makes me believe that they went north unless they found a portal or The Rift.

But I'm trying to picture the maps together and it doesn't make much of sense. Since that means Elona would be Northwest of Cantha. Unless there is another part of Elona or another continent east of it. Most of the Corsairs live near that southern rim of Elona. Northwest of Cantha has nothing but sea. When I think back about Prophecies, I think about Orr, the Mursaat, and the Seers. My guess Ch.4 would be called Guild Wars: The Corsair Wars. If for some reason they bring another god, it might be a Poseidon type perhaps? And just for kicks, Atlantis is not the only rumored continent that was sunked, Mu is another continent hidden below the Pacific Ocean. No scientific evidence of the 2 continents have been found.

lol u say there no must storyline that could go with the charr but what would come from a pirates storyline, not alot. Pirates motivations are: Self pleasure, treasure, and general dislike of non pirates. All they would want to do is steal the biggest treasure possible to raid and pillage a few towns for the fun of it.

Whats to say the dredge didnt tunnel north to find Cantha (the world is round dont forget)

You also missed the possibility of the Scarab Plague, it came suddenly wiped out alot and then disappeared (aside from a small resurgance in the dessert). If it was never understood, whats to say they wont pop up somewhere else.

Free Runner · Jan 10, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Garfaz Steelfur - "He later came to the Realm of Torment with a warband of other Charr to serve his Titan gods. However, the demons in the realm, who like to devour the souls of mortals, started to feast on his band and he quickly realized the nature of the Titans.".

Not all creatures in RoT are Dead, Garfaz is n
ot, and neither is Scorch Emberspire, both searched a way into RoT to find and serve the 'missing' titans who evidentally they had heard nothing from, and began to grow disillusioned with.

No. Both are dead. You cannot just walk into the Realm Of Torment since before the events at Ruins Of Morah there was no proper entrance (with the exception of the DoK). The whole of Nightfall was about opening the Realm Of Torment and pushing it into Elona!.

Scorch Emberspire is dead. He states that he died along with many other Charr in the invasion of Orr.

"Always toward Arah, where the gods once lived. All that awaited us there was death. What sort of god would lead its people to destruction?"

As for Garfaz you only got half of the description of him:

"Garfaz Steelfur is a member of The Oddbodies, a group of misfits among the forces of Forgotten fighting Abaddon in the Realm of Torment. Garfaz is a flamboyant and courageous charr warrior in the band, but in a previous life, when he walked the surface of Tyria, Garfaz was a vicious warrior who helped sack and burn Ascalon after The Searing.

He later came to the Realm of Torment with a warband of other Charr to serve his Titan gods. However, the demons in the realm, who like to devour the souls of mortals, started to feast on his band and he quickly realized the nature of the Titans. He joined Captain Yithlis to fight his former masters."

Garfaz must of been among those Charr that died in Orr. He obviously found himself in RoT like Scorch Emberspire,realised the Titans were there and after finding them saw the true side of the Titans.

Saleh No.1 · Jan 10, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

About the "Where is Cantha located?" thing, Jatoro Musagi in Kodlonu Hamlet says: "I hail from the southwest" and Jatoro is the guy from the captured son quest on shing jea.

Feme Assassin · Feb 19, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Abaddon's fate

In the final mission of the Nightfall campaign, Abaddon is defeated, and begins to collapse. Kormir, using the gift granted to her by the avatars, absorbs his power and knowledge and becomes the Goddess of Truth.
Olias makes the following statement in Throne of Secrets
"Abaddon is dead. And I assure you, Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did. We will not hear from Abaddon again in this lifetime... or the next." However, considering Dhuum's current status, this statement is suspect

i took this info from guildwiki and i just wanted to know what is the mistake the other gods did and if this refers to dhuum as it is stated above
then i think grenth took duums place after abbaddon was imprisoned .
So the mistake may be that the gods didnt kill Abbaddon and in ch4 or 5 or 6 grenth will try to kill dhuum instead of kepting him imprisoned.

And we do know that dhuum is still alive from the npc in gate of torment that sais that dhuum and menzies were helping abbaddon.

Another clue that dhuum is alive is the four riders quest in uw and this statement above that sais grenth will not do the same mistake so a possible batle between grenth and dhuum is something we may see in the future

if this is discussed b4 i would like a link of the thread ty

Allanon754 · Feb 20, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by thezed

Ive posted this somewhere before but can't seem to find it. Ive also expanded on it some.

Ch4: Guild Wars: Ragnarok

After the devistation left in Tyria, Cantha, and Elona by Abaddon and his generals a group of adventurers go exploring for new lands, untouched by the darkness that has befallen the lads the past few years. They decied to head north, in the direction ancient scrolls say Elona had traded with in the time of the Primevil Kings. Heading north, around the Magumma jungle, they find the lost kingdom. But what awaits them is anything but "untouched".

For the past 200 (or about) years the humans here have been driven into slavery. Their slave-masters: the Charr! Our hero's join a rag-tag group of rebeles based on an island just of the coast in freeing the northern people.

Durring their fight our heros learn the Charr are not their true enemy. They themselves have been forced into slavery by a race of giants. Many of the Charr excaped this slavery when the Titans came, pretending to be their gods. Those that remain are willing to join the humans in their fight (after we prove to them we could actually win).

Our heros learn this race of giants is the same race that walked Tyria thousands of years ago. After fighting their way through the giants homeland our heros come face to face with their leader. Through him our heros learn that the giants work for a race known as the Fay. The Fay are a race of pure magical beings, born from The Mists. And it is in The Mists they must be defeated....

Explanation: This chapter would have a Norse theme. The starter island would be based on the Brittish Iles. Other enviroments would range from thick forests, mountains, cold plains, and icy wastlands. The giants are based on the race of giants/gods that were the enemy to Odin, Thor, and the other Norse gods. The Fay are a reference to the "fairy people" that appear in many of the myths of northern Europe (including King Arthor and many of Shekspear's plays).

Though very well written, that sounds a lot like Stargate

Sophitia Leafblade · Feb 21, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feme Assassin

Olias makes the following statement in Throne of Secrets
"Abaddon is dead. And I assure you, Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did. We will not hear from Abaddon again in this lifetime... or the next." However, considering Dhuum's current status, this statement is suspect

i took this info from guildwiki and i just wanted to know what is the mistake the other gods did and if this refers to dhuum as it is stated above
then i think grenth took duums place after abbaddon was imprisoned .
So the mistake may be that the gods didnt kill Abbaddon and in ch4 or 5 or 6 grenth will try to kill dhuum instead of kepting him imprisoned.

And we do know that dhuum is still alive from the npc in gate of torment that sais that dhuum and menzies were helping abbaddon.

Another clue that dhuum is alive is the four riders quest in uw and this statement above that sais grenth will not do the same mistake so a possible batle between grenth and dhuum is something we may see in the future

The mistake the Gods made was to imprision Abaddon rather than to destroy him, it had nothing to do with Dhuum other than the Fact its possible he was among the Gods who imprisoned him. It is possible Grenth took over due to Dhuum apposing the other gods imprisoning Abaddon.

And No Dhuum isnt dead, but on his own he's no threat to anyone, he just can compete with the other Gods and it is very much likly that Grenth Absorbed all his Powers when he took over (much like Koromir does when she takes over from Abaddon) and that is why he never actually does anything but send minions of his.

Guildmaster Cain · Feb 22, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

But clearly, Grenth wasnt a god yet, when Abbadon was imprisoned the first time.

I also suspect the 'elder gods' took their power from beings that came before them. (this is explained in a quest in Torment, the NPC (margonite something with an A) says cleary Abbadon wasnt the first God of Secrets and he wont be the last) Maybe the elder gods were part of the race known as Giganticus (Abbadon is huuuge and fits the description), they defeated their predecessors and started creating worlds like Tyria. Grenth and Kormir, both humans became powerfull enough to overthrow (or simply made the right decision at the right time) one of the gods and take their place. The other gods are also said to be the 'siblings' of Abbadon, stating them to be related.

I suspect the gods are not that all-powerfull and there is a greater force standing above them on the ladder, not interfering with the mortals.

Feme Assassin · Feb 22, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

thats exactly what i am talking about i suspect that grentgh wasnt a god when abbaddon was imprisoned and dhuum was the last one of the old creatures that the gods took their power something like the titans in greek mythology.
Zeus imprisoned cronos and took his place as the king of the gods and then the other gods came to his side
So dhuum may have something in common with giganticus lupicus

cain i have reads somewhere that abbaddon took his power from an older god so i dont think he was from the giganticus but i cant be sure